CARLSON:
Last and not least, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton. She was the first lady of Arkansas and later first lady of the United States. She was elected to her first
term as a senator from New York in 2000 and re-elected last year. Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton.
(APPLAUSE)
CARLSON:
Senator Clinton, welcome.
CLINTON:
Thank you.
CARLSON:
I don't know if Senator Edwards is still here, but from the last debate, let me go on the record. I like the coral jacket.
CLINTON:
Thank you.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON:
Joe is our first questioner for you, Senator.
Joe?
SOLMONESE:
Senator, thank you for being here tonight. You've said in past settings like this and all across the country that you would like to repeal "Don't ask; don't tell."
Now, since 2003 you've sat on the Senate Armed Services Committee, the committee that would decide this issue. Why haven't you introduced legislation to
repeal this policy?
SOLMONESE:
Well, Joe, first, thanks for doing this and thanks for everybody being here and having this forum.
I think the very simple answer is we didn't have a chance with the Republican Congress and George Bush as president. And I want to get it done when I'm
president. I want to do it and have it be successful. I don't want to try in a Republican Congress with a very negative president and have it defeated.
We're talking now that we have a Democratic Congress about what steps we can take to sort of lay the groundwork so that when we do have a change in the
White House, which can't happen too soon to suit me...
(APPLAUSE)
... we will be able to move on that.
But I just want to put it into a broader context, because it's one of my highest priorities. I came out against "Don't ask; don't tell" in 1999. It was a
transitional action that was taken back at the beginning of my husband's administration, because at the time there was such a witch hunt going on.
And we've got some veterans over here. I saw Staff Sergeant Eric Alba, who I have met before at HRC, and I was so glad to see him when I walked in.
(APPLAUSE)
And for people who don't know Staff Sergeant Alba's history, he was the first Marine wounded in Iraq, recipient of a Purple Heart, and 15 years ago he
could have both been refused the opportunity to serve, but if he had gotten into the military under the rules that existed at the time and the attitudes that were
prevalent, he could have been court-martialed or even accused and threatened with criminal action if he didn't reveal names of those with whom he might have
had relationships who were serving in the military.
I think we have moved a long way on this and other issues, but I think it's important to recall how much of an advance "Don't ask; don't tell" was at the time.
However, it was not implemented appropriately. It was still used to discharge a lot of patriotic men and women who were serving our country, often at great cost
in the middle of a war where people were being told, "We don't need your services anymore," including linguists and translators and other specialty services.
But in 1999, it just struck me that it wasn't working and that what we needed to do was to try to move us toward using the Code of Military Justice and judge
people on conduct, not status, no matter whether you're gay or straight. That's the way it should be. It should be even-handed across the entire services.
We're beginning to see some changes. I remember very well the intense debates about this back in '93, and honestly, it was so emotional in the military and
in the Congress that the Congress did pass a law. But we have to get the law repealed.
But now it's beginning to change. Former Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman General Shalikashvili has just come out in favor of a change. I've noticed General
Powell, who was adamantly against my husband's efforts back in '93, has begun to say, "You know, maybe we should rethink this."
So I think we will lay the groundwork, but then when I'm president, we'll get it done. And I'm looking forward to doing that.
(APPLAUSE)
SOLMONESE:
Changing tracks, talk to us about what is at the heart of your opposition to same sex marriage?
CLINTON:
Well, Joe, I prefer to think of it as being very positive about civil unions.
(LAUGHTER)
It's a personal position, and you and I have talked about it. I've talked about it with a number of my friends here and across the country.
And for me, we have made it very clear in our country that we believe in equality. How we get to full equality is the debate we're having. And I am
absolutely in favor of civil unions with full equality, full equality of benefits, rights and privileges.
And I've also been a very strong supporter of letting the states maintain their jurisdiction over marriage. And I believe that was a right decision for a lot of
reasons, because it's easy, again, to forget that just 2.5 years ago, we were facing all of these referenda that were enshrining discrimination in state constitutions.
And a lot of people tried very hard to fight against them and prevent them from being passed, but unfortunately, they were.
Now, 2.5 years later we're beginning to see other states take different approaches. And what we were able to do -- and I really give HRC a lot of credit for
your leadership on this -- in stopping the federal marriage amendment gave the states the breathing room to make different decisions.
So I want to proceed with equalizing federal benefits. I want to repeal Section 3 of DOMA, which stands in the way of the extension of benefits to people in
committed same sex relationships, and I will be very strongly in favor of doing that as president.
SOLMONESE:
I wonder, Senator, if you can sympathize with the frustration of this argument that it's a states' rights issue. In the civil rights struggle, this argument that it
was a states' rights issue was something that was typically used against people working against us as sort of a red herring. And so can you see where this
argument of marriage as a states' right issue would resonate the same way in our community?
CLINTON:
Absolutely. And Joe, not only that, I really respect the advocacy that the community is waging on behalf of marriage. I think you're doing exactly what you
need to do and should do, and I really am very much impressed by the intensity and the persistence of that advocacy. But this has not been a long-term struggle
yet.
And I think it's really clear that people in the states are moving much more rapidly to deal with the inequality than you would find at the federal level.
When you and I were plotting strategy to beat the federal marriage amendment, the reason we were plotting strategy is we were worried it was going to pass.
And, again, this was a terrifying prospect that we would have enshrined in the Constitution for the first time ever discrimination.
And we were very clear about what we needed to do to get the vote in order to prevent this mean-spirited, divisive effort led by Karl Rove to politicize the
hopes and dreams of so many of our fellow Americans.
And we were able to defeat it, but I don't know that we could have defeated it if we had not had DOMA. That, if anything, has provided a great protection
against what was clearly the Republican strategy blessed by George Bush, led by the congressional Republicans, to just cynically use marriage as a political tool.
CARLSON:
Do you think that's going to come up this time when the Republicans are running?
CLINTON:
No.
CARLSON:
Is it dead as an issue?
CLINTON:
You know, Margaret, I'm very optimistic, because I think that...
CARLSON:
I haven't heard it yet.
CLINTON:
I don't hear it either, and -- don't tell anybody, but I'm running for president...
(LAUGHTER)
... and so I'm traveling around the country a lot.
CARLSON:
"Don't ask; don't tell."
CLINTON:
Yes, that's right. And I don't hear it. I don't feel it. I don't see it. Even with the Republicans, with their various forums, you don't get the sense. Why?
Because a lot of people who were in favor of that constitutional amendment knew better. That was a strictly cynical, political ploy on their part, and they were
successful, unfortunately, in a lot of states.
But I think that now people are starting to say, "Well, maybe we don't want to do that," and because a Democratic Congress won't bring up the amendment,
there's really nothing for them to be rallying around.
CARLSON:
Thank you, Senator.
Melissa?
ETHERIDGE:
Senator, I have a personal issue here. I remember when your husband was elected president, I actually came out publicly during his inaugural week. It was a
very hopeful time for the gay community. For the first time we were being recognized as American citizens. It was wonderful. We were very, very hopeful.
And in the years that followed, our hearts were broken. We were thrown under the bus. We were pushed aside. All those great promises that were made to us
were broken. And I understand politics. I understand how hard things are to bring about change.
But it is many years later now, and what are you going to do to be different than that? I know you're sitting here now. It's a year out -- more than a year. A
year from now are we going to be left behind like we were before?
CLINTON:
Well, obviously, Melissa, I don't see it quite the way that you describe, but I respect your feeling about it.
From the moment that Bob Hathaway spoke at the Democratic convention through the appointments that were made, both to positions in Cabinet agencies as
well as in the White House, to the ongoing struggle against Gingrich and the Republican majority, I think that we certainly didn't get as much done as I would
have liked, but I believe that there was a lot of honest effort going on by the president, the vice president and the rest of us who were trying to keep the
momentum going.
I remember when I was running for the Senate as first lady, marching in the gay pride parade in New York City. And to a lot of people that was just an
unbelievable act.
ETHERIDGE:
Why not be the leader now?
CLINTON:
Well, I think I am a leader now. And I think that we are doing a lot to not only talk about laws, as important as they are, but to really try to change attitudes
and persuade people that they should be more open, more respectful, more accepting.
If I were sitting where you're sitting with all you have gone through in the last 14 years, I'm sure I would feel exactly the same way, because not only did
you bravely come out, but you've had health challenges and so much else. And so time can't go by slowly. You want things to move as quickly as possible, which
I understand and wish could happen as well.
But as president, I think I have an opportunity both to reverse the concerted assault on people. It wasn't just on people's rights; it was on people. It was
pointing fingers. It was demeaning. It was degrading. It was mean-spirited. And that will end. That is over. And when we began to...
(APPLAUSE)
CARLSON:
We're almost out of time, believe it or not. Time flies when you're having a good time.
CLINTON:
Oh, I can't believe it.
CARLSON:
But Jonathan?
CLINTON:
To be continued, Melissa.
CARLSON:
Jonathan?
CAPEHART:
Senator, former Joint Chiefs Chairman Peter Pace called homosexuality immoral. And when you were first asked about it, you said, quote, "I'm going to
leave that to others to conclude." The next day, after much criticism, you finally said you did not think that homosexuality was immoral. Why didn't you say that
the first time?
CLINTON:
Well, it was a mistake, Jonathan, because what I went on to say after what you quoted was to launch an attack on "Don't ask; don't tell," because my view
was that as a chairman of the Joint Chiefs, he had absolutely no right to say what he said.
I disagreed with him profoundly, but what was really offensive is that he was in a position of responsibility that had a direct impact on the lives of hundreds
of thousands of these young people in the military. So I went right at him on "Don't ask; don't tell."
And you know you say these things. Somebody sticks a microphone in front of you and you say, "Well, that's pretty good." And my friends started calling
me and saying, "Well, that wasn't very good." I said, "Oh, you're probably right." So I immediately got the first opportunity I could to say the whole thing.
So I just was focused on one aspect of what I thought was really over the line. You know, Joe Blow, Joe Schmo walking down the street can say, "Here's
what I believe." You say, "Who cares?" The chairman of the Joint Chiefs says it -- that has a direct impact on policy, and that's what I went after. But I should
have put it in a broader context.
CAPEHART:
Senator, would you...?
CARLSON:
Well, we are just about out of time, Jonathan. I'm really sorry.
CAPEHART:
... who's anti-gay?
CLINTON:
I'm sorry. What, Jonathan?
CAPEHART:
Would you put someone on the bench who is known to be anti-gay?
CLINTON:
No. And that's why we shouldn't.
(APPLAUSE)
CARLSON:
Senator...
CLINTON:
That's one of the reasons why I'm against Southwick for...
CARLSON:
Senator, you told the AFL-CIO on Tuesday night, "I'm your girl." Do you want to express those same sentiments here?
CLINTON:
I am your girl. Absolutely.
CARLSON:
And you do get a closing statement, short though it may be.
CLINTON:
Well, I want to be a president who really does move forward the agenda of progress and equality in our country. That is what I have tried to do my entire life
for 35 years.
This country, with all of its flaws which we can see manifest -- it doesn't move fast enough; it doesn't do what we want it to do -- has demonstrated
extraordinary resilience and a lot of movement forward. And I think we will see that as the years unfold, and I want to be a part of that.
But I come to these issues not as a senator or as a lawyer or as a presidential candidate, but as a friend of a lot of members of the LGBT community who are
my age who have suffered through a long period of coming out, of having to face families and having to deal with all of the issues that we know occur.
And I want to be a president who can clearly say to the American people, "These are our friends, our children, our parents. These are people we want to
support as they live the best lives they can."
So it's very personal for me. And we are not going to agree on everything, but I will be a president who will fight for you, who will work to end
discrimination in the employment area and "Don't ask; don't tell," finally get hate crimes through, do a lot of what we need to do on HIV AIDS and so much
more. And I really hope we can be partners in trying to make our country a little bit better and a little more progressive for all of us. Thank you.
CARLSON:
Senator, wish we had more time. Thank you.
CLINTON:
I do, too.
CARLSON:
That concludes our forum, but the campaign is only heating up. From now through Election Day 2008, stay informed, follow the campaign and join with
LGBT Americans across the nation to debate the issues of visiblevote08.com and at hrc.org.
On behalf of LOGO and the Human Rights Campaign Foundation, thank you to your panelists, Jonathan Capehart, Melissa Etheridge and Joe Solmonese.